15 Reasons against Pickup

It’s a scam

Those people are not seducers but internet marketers. – Aaron Sleazy

Shady business strategies, horrendously overpriced bootcamps and products, fake reviews, forum censorship, marketing lies, empty promises, unqualified instructors, … The list is endless.
A reason for this ‘elite secret society’ image is that those companies want to keep their rip-off business models hidden from the public eye. PUA ‘Gurus’ are afraid of being exposed as the scammers that they are.
Have you ever asked yourself why there are hardly any infield videos of those seduction masters showing their skills? Use your common sense and look at gurus clowns like Tyler Durden, David DeAngelo, Ross Jeffries, Mehow, etc. and how charming and seductive they come across. Why would you take advice from weirdos who can’t get laid with their own methods?


Its not about learning a skill, its about removing your barriers

Mating (Seduction) is as much a skill as digesting or breathing is a skill. You are, as a human, a social and sexual being. You are literally BORN TO FUCK.
However, lots of men have somehow acquired some inner roadblocks / mental barriers that prevent them from getting laid like normal guys: Insecurity, Shyness, Fear of Rejection, Low Self Esteem, Negative Self-image and Self-doubts, etc.
The key to seduction is simply removing all these inner roadblocks and relying on your native masculine instincts. The idea of mating as a to-learn skill where you start from zero and have to practice step after step is just a marketing ploy to keep you buying seduction coaching and products.
The Pickup Community treats mating as ‘Game’ where you have to persuade an opponent to sleep with you, based on the male virgin’s belief that ‘women don’t want sex’. This even led to advice such as to ‘keep sarging while in a relationship’, because otherwise you’ll lose your ‘game’ and hence your girlfriend her interest in you. Also, this led to the ridiculous belief that with enough practice you can get any girl you want.
And this is another big lie of the Seduction Community: guys are told to go out night after night to improve their ‘game’, when actually they are just playing a number’s game. It’s classic backwards rationalizing: After 20 failed approaches in a nightclub the PUA finally finds a girl willing to make out with him – and what does he think: „Oh my god, it must be because the delivery of my routines has improved! Mystery is a genius!“


Encouraging weird, creepy and anti-social behaviour

There are confidence exercises like walking around with a dildo strapped on your head, running through the streets in underwear or watching porn in public (because apparently ‘talking to a girl’ is a huge challenge that requires lots of preparation and courage). The purpose is to break ‘social conditioning’. And this in a community where many guys would just need to be a bit more normal.

Then there are ‘state’-pumping exercises like performing war dances in nightclubs.
“Everybody who gets laid jumps around and claps their hands like a retard for a few hours first before they have sex. Tyler just backwards engineered it from studying retarded jumping clapping naturals in Hollywood and put it into a system that the average guy can use to take their game to the next level.” – TheOverfiend, PUAhate.com

Then there are things PUAs do to stand out from the crowd and attract women, like peacocking, i.e. dressing like a douchebag. Because it is attractive to randomly break social rules and totally not weird. In Reality, this makes socially uncalibrated guys (=majority of PUAs) even more socially uncalibrated (now with ridiculous outfits).

There are PUAs running around with openers such as „Do you think King-Kong takes naps?“ or „Do you know where the chocolate mountain is?“ All attention is good attention, isn’t it? This way, girls will be interested in you (the same way they’re interested in a car accident).
These pieces of advice make guys only lose their social calibration, because it makes them believe that everything they know and everything they have ever done is wrong. They don’t trust their instincts anymore and rather follow some PU-Gurus theories, losing the ability to naturally interact with people and to know what is socially acceptable.


Bogus Psychology

A lot of what is called ‘Inner Game’ is actually amateur psychology. Many men can’t get laid because they have underlying mental issues they’re not aware of, and instead of seeing a trained therapist to deal with their anxieties or insecurities or low self-esteem, they turn to the Pickup Community for help, where utterly unqualified people (with no academic experience in this field whatsoever) teach them twisted theories about Ego, Frame and Limiting Beliefs or how to fix their confidence with tapping and hypnosis.
Not only is much of this stuff useless (or even damaging in itself), it’s harmful because it keeps you from seeking professional help. It’s like people who stop seeing their doctor because some guru told them that excessive praying or meditation or whatever esoteric trend will cure all their illnesses.


Overestimating ‘Game’

Pickup advice is all about improving your ‘Seduction Skills’ by sarging 4-5 times a week. This led many basement-dwelling nerds to believe that, with enough practice, they can become basement-dwelling nerds with model girlfriends.
The notion that looks don’t matter and all it needs is ‘Game’ is not only useless, but harmful, as it shifts your focus away from doing the things that are proven to work: Going to a gym, dressing well, expanding your social circle, etc.
If you cant get laid there are surely reasons for it, and you might need to change your lifestyle or other things about you. Looks matter, period. That this is even argued about in Pickup forums (usually with brilliant arguments a la ‘My ugly friend Joe has a hot girlfriend, this proves that looks don’t matter!“) just shows how clueless and deluded these people are.



There are a lot of bullshit information thrown around, being misinterpreted and treated as facts. Pickup advice claims to build upon evolutionary biology and social psychology, but have you ever heard of any guru having any kind of academic experience in these fields?
I don’t care how many percent of ape males fuck how many percent of ape females in a tribe, and I don’t care how peacocks attract their females. PUAs take these kind of ‘facts’ or their own limited personal experiences (“I have field tested it!!!!!!!”) and build all these twisted theories about human mating on them. It’s mental masturbation of clueless, frustrated guys following absurd dating theories because they lack the experiences others made in high school to draw their own conclusions from.


PUA = AFC 2.0

What is the AFCs one tragic flaw? He is trying to make a woman like him by being nice and buying flowers.
What is the PUAs behaviour? He is trying to make a woman like him by being confident and not buying her a drink.
The PUA repeats the AFC’s fatal error, just with all these oh-so sophisticated dating theories. A real man doesn’t change himself to impress others and doesn’t act in a certain way to change a girls perception of him. Therefore a PUA, desperate for validation and acceptance, can never be a real man.
The Pickup Community tells you to ‘not put women on a pedestal’ and not let women control you, but at the same times gives you all these rules on what to do what not to do in order to impress women.
This also leads to the ‘Qualification paradox’: You’re trying to make a girl working to meet your standards, but actually you’re doing this whole ‘qualification’ thing because YOU are trying to meet HER standards (of a confident, not-so-easily-impressed guy).


Trying to be cool is never cool

One of the most annoying character traits is trying to be cool. Everyone knows a guy who always wants to impress others and make others admire him, and how upsetting this is. Most people can’t stand such a person.
Acting supercool, trying to be ‘alpha’, ‘DHV’ing (=bragging) or trying to impress others are all sure-fire ways to NOT be cool. It just makes you a ridiculous try-hard guy. When you’re not your real self, everyone (especially girls) can tell. People will like you more for being an open and honest person than for everything you could ever pretend to be.


Human Value and the HB-Scale

The concept of classifying people according to their ‘value’, developed from a perverted mix of evolutionary biology and social darwinism, shows just how cold-blooded and calculating PUAs are. Only dysfunctional and sociopathic characters would objectify women and social interactions with such a disdain.
And the more you think about other people’s value, the more will you be worrying about your own. Viewing people as if there was some objective scale, some obscure ‘Survival & Replication-Value’ is a surefire way to destroy your self-esteem and and replace it with self-doubt. Become a PUA, become a neurotic.
Also, Mystery’s concept of ‘Survival & Replication-Value’ (which is a classic example of „Taking a random fact and mentally masturbating your own bullshit theory upon it’) implies that your biological imperative is to get as many women pregnant as possible (or ‘your genes will be unapologetically weeded out of existence’), totally neglecting the fact that we humans, mammals that we are, need to care of our offspring for it to survive. ‘S & R Value’ is largely determined by how much you are capable of creating a strong pair-bond with your spouse and providing an (emotionally) stable environment for your child. Not exactly the things a PUA excels in.


The difference between confidence and competence

Pickup gurus tell you to increase your confidence by repeatedly talking to girls. Although this may work to some extent, it misses the core point: True confidence is not built on how well others respond to you, but on the fact that others cannot hurt your ego because you’re not getting your sense of self-worth from what other people think of you.
You may overcome your fears and anxieties with enough approaches – after all, competence comes with practice. But do you think that this brute-force method is the best way to handle every part of your life? PUAs are desperately trying to get some affection or approval, because these successes are what they need to keep their fragile self-image intact.
PUAs are focussed on getting validation, whereas they should work on becoming independent of validation.


The Nice Guy misunderstanding

A Nice Guy isn’t a failure because he is a nice person, but because he just acts nice, he plays a role to make a girl like him (this is why you can’t advice a Nice Guy to be himself: He is so used to acting and role-playing in his social life, he doesn’t even know what it truly means to be himself).
Many guys got this wrong and think the secret to being a player is to treat women like shit, to be anti-feminist, to be macho. They begin to see women as lying sluts who always talk about wanting a nice boyfriend but secretly fuck every jerk that comes their way. The newfound machismo comes in handy: Finally it’s time to get back at these bitches for all the painful rejections in highschool! And just like they have been too much of a Nice Guy then they become too much of an asshole now.
No, you don’t have to be a selfish prick to get laid. It all comes down to your motives: Are you nice because you genuinely like her or just so that she’ll like you and do you a ‘favor’ in return?


The Alpha Male paradox

The Seduction Community has a lot of ideas, concepts and rules about what an alpha male is like: confident, funny, social,… Now PUAs apply these rules and try to act confident, funny, social etc.
But what is the core attribute of an Alpha Male? A guy who does what he wants and doesn’t worry about what others think of him (this, IMO, is the key to Inner Game: Not getting your sense of self-worth from what others think about you.)
How can you ever become the kind of man who does what he wants by following someone else’s rules? (this paradox is also quite well explained in this video)
Different girls are attracted to different attributes. One girl may love you for being deep and intellectual, another may despise you for exactly that. Why pretend to be something you can’t even be sure that works?
Find out what she wants. Do everything exactly as she wants it. If she wants a loud party guy, pretend to be just that. If she wants an interesting guy, tell her ‘DHV routines’. If she wants a guy with standards, do ‘qualification’. Do anything to satisfy her every need. Can you still think ‘I am the prize’?


All Girls are the same

Seduction is taught as a system, an algorithm, a linear model, a well defined order of steps. Women have attraction switches, and if you know what they are and how to press them, they’ll be all yours (and you’ll never ever be rejected again).
The rather technical concept of systems and algorithms appeals to nerds (who consist the majority of PUAs), it’s scientific principles applied to human interactions. It goes even further downhill when guys start to believe that if you’re not following the system and executing all steps in the right order, e.g. making out with her before A3 or fucking her before building enough comfort, you’re obviously doing something wrong! Fortunately, some things just can’t be calculated, and so the PUAs structured approach will never live up to its expectations. You can still approach girls from an angle less than 45°.



Because the „Go out and talk to girls”(TM) Method is pretty much obvious, greedy PUA marketers had to come up with alleged dating secrets they could charge ridiculous amounts of money for, such as „approach from a 45° angle“ (and wonder how all the other people around you get laid without such genius advice).
Overcomplicating seduction makes you worse, not better. It makes you stay in your head, processing a million thoughts per second (‘paralysis by analysis’), and feel like talking to a girl is some extremely complicated process you need an F-18 fighter pilot calibration for. It’s not like PUAs have invented ‘Meeting a girl in a club and taking her home’.
All around the globe people get laid without viewing the interaction as A1-A2-A3-… or listening to hypnosis tapes before going out. All this stuff only makes inexperienced guys believe that sex is something extremely difficult they have to get out of women with sophisticated tactics.


Lies and deception

Using women as means to validation. Psychological ‘tricks’ and manipulation. Posting detailed ‘lay reports’ of the girls they slept with (or at least claim to). Hidden intentions. Pre-scripted routines for every situation. Referring to people as ‘obstacles’ and ‘targets’. It’s fucking weird. And no, these tactics are not ‘the same as make-up or high heels’.
Would you buy something from a sleazy salesman you can sense is dishonest, who doesn’t pay attention to what you say because he is already planning his next move to get you to do something for him? And for the same reasons women don’t want to be approached by a creepy guy who thinks of himself as a ‘Pick-up Artist’.
Oh, the irony: Men join the Pickup Community to improve their sex lives, and it turns them into something women despise.